Watching the video I have a handy tip for all you kids out there....

If while you are walking into WalMart you see three Oswego Police Officers and one of them is holding up a shield, you should come back later....

Pulling a gun inside a WalMart is insane, I don't care who got shoved. A grown man should realize a little shove is insignificant compared to a loaded gun with children present, and definitely should be fired immediately. Total loose cannon.

french started the whole thing .if it is that big of a deal that thurmond went back for eggs then go to another line or leave . i agree with jane hes gotta go .but you can bet the county will do nothing.

PATCH ARTICLE SAYS: Irvin said Monday that the video "can be interpreted in a number of ways," and without audio, does not conclusively prove that Thurmond felt like he and his wife were in danger.

Seriously?1!?!?!?! A gun is pulled during a conversation with you, do you really need audio to prove that you felt you were in danger? I don't typically have guns drawn in my conversations.....

That officer should not still be on active duty - if he is not capable of going to the Walmart and waiting in line without flipping out and scaring the hell out of everyone, how can he protect our citizens? It is our tax dollars paying his salary, he needs to go.

1) Thurmond should have more respect for the other customers. If you forget an item, darn your luck. You do not hold up an entire line (This Walmart is notorious for long, slow lines...but that is another a whole other story) because you forgot an item. You go back later. Common coutesy and sensible. However, Deputy French had no valid reason to pull a gun. Yes, we understand he is above the law, but it was not necessary. First, he should have talked to Thurmond and been reasonable. I do understand how your frustration level peaks at Walmart but this should never have happened. Deputy French should be reprimanded for his actions. Thurmond should have to go to manners school. Now...lets see an article about how frustrating Walmart is....

Ridiculous. I've known a handful of law enforcement officers over the years, and none of them routinely carried a weapon while off-duty. Weird. Was he on his way home or something? I can't understand why a trained law enforcement professional would feel that the safest way to diffuse a situation that appears to be less than the equivalent of a playground altercation over whose turn it is on the swings is to pull and aim a presumably loaded gun at a customer in a store full of families, including children. I can't imagine how scared my children would have been.

If you're gonna play, "Mine's bigger than yours", kindly do it elsewhere. Where you can't kill people who are just trying to get the stuff to pack for lunches that week.

And Avid Reader nailed it! lol

I can understand why Thurmond was mad - look at that cart and the fact that Thurmond was in the 'express line'. He certainly extended the max items rule for that line in particular. Regardless, Thurmond did touch and shove a person in a form of aggression - unknowing that he was a cop. Thurmond should not have done that; aggression is no way to solve a problem. What if French wasn't a cop and didn't have a gun - this likely would have turned into a brawl instigated by Thurmond. However, French took it to a whole new level drawing a weapon during a non-lethal altercation; French is at fault for misconduct of an officer. He should bear the brunt of the punishment for his actions. Thurmond should also proceed with a lawsuit as a result. Though Thurmond should also be punished for physically abusing another person - even it was a petty push.

What gets me is that the people coming into Wal Mart just stood there waiting for it to end. The only one with the smarts to leave was the lady with the child that entered Wal Mart; but even she hesitated. Gun out = lost customer for life. I'm an early riser and will always do my shopping at 6:00 / 7:00 am on Saturday; no lines, no problems and out without any stress. Wal Mart lost my business a long time ago due to their sub par product offerings. We're a Meijer family for now - until there's a competitive and quality alternative. Dominick's and Jewel - no way, too expensive.

Whoops - I mixed my names in my last post. Correct first line should read, "I can understand why French was mad - look at that cart and the fact that Thurmond was in the 'express line'.'.

I'm not motivated enough to count, but the express lines are often 20 items or less.

There should be much more than just a "reprimand" for the detective. Pulling a gun over something as ludicrous as being "frustrated" over a "shove" is ridiculous. The detective put public safety at risk - period. As an officer the detective is supposedly "trained" to handle situations such as these in order to ensure EVERYONE'S safety, not put public safety at risk. Shame on you Det. French and shame on you Thurmond for acting like a bully in the first place.

No matter how frustrating Shopping may be it NEVER EVER justifies brining a gun into a store and threatening ANYONE!!! Who cares if someone gets into the express lane with more than the number of items, maybe the cashier told them it was ok? Happens at Dominicks when it is slow the cashiers will allow larger carts in the express lanes. Look at the big picture people, if this is the type of deputies Kendall has they seriously need to reevaluate.

Why is it being forgotten that the officer was yelling at the lady in the first place? Yes, she was overloaded for the quick lane, normally you change lanes or just roll your eyes and deal with it. In my opinion, the officer provoked the "push" which unfolded into more that impacted a lot more people.

Question: Had Thurmond stepped toward Dep. French after the gun was drawn & aimed at Thurmond, would French have opened fire ? He almost would have had to, if Thurmond did not respond to verbal commands. Thurmond was too big for French to handle physically, so he could not risk having his weapon taken from him. Think about that. Headline: Man shot dead in Walmart after pushing off duty deputy out of uniform over verbal exchange. Hmmmm. I'll bet the customers & cashier would remember that moment for the rest of their lives.

i have lived in oswego for over 50 years you can bet that randell or the kendall county board are not going to a dam thing they are all crooked always have been always will be. from my under standing tichava is still on the pay roll as a consultant nice punishment.do less get payed more only in illinois.

Did the girl at the register have no one in line and tell him to come on over? This has happened to me may times. My point is, it is not about the items, it is not about the store and it's manager. Why did the officer provoke the incident to begin with. Is there a law against using the express line with to many items. Did the officer approach Thurmond in an agreesive manner? kinda looks like it. I think if Mr Thurmond want to really push French in a (life threatening manner) French would of wound up in the produce section. In the video it looks like French moved toward Thurmond and got pushed back. The bottom line is that this is a scarry video to watch.

All this over something so silly. We all have our bad days and get agitated over small things, but this is a good lesson for us to just let them go. Be civil, be polite, be courteous in public. Road rage comes to mind. Just get to your destination without the drama. Not worth the trouble or harm that may occur otherwise. Shake your head and roll your eyes, but don't confront others unless they are endangering someone.

Kim, how was mr rhyming being a bully? The detective knowingly had a gun, provoked a situation and according to eyewitnesses even took to insulting them by asking "if they were on welfare?". The man was standing up for his wife and He's the one on trial.

All the videos and you still can't tell what really took place.

The real issue is: an officer in street cloths lost his patiences and temper pulled a weapon and pointed it at someone. DID NOT I repeat DID NOT say he was an officer, DID NOT show any police ID. Only after the gun is pointed in the mans chest he came out with the officer. You think had he pulled his POLICE ID things would have been different. You bet ! This is NOT how professional officers are trained or act. His temper and EGO took over and he acted not like an officer should but caused this to get way out of hand. Heck look at the police officers coming into the place you think that thought he was an officer. He works for the tax payers of this county.

Maybe we should use some common sense people. There should be no reason to draw a gun in the middle of a grocery store. We all have been in the "wrong" line at some point and lost our patience but are expected to behave ourselves and either move lines or wait patiently. Apparently being an officer means that you no longer have to use manners or common sense for that matter. At the end of the day it is still Kendall County and they do what they damn well please (and get away with it). Period.

It's why I never go into a Walmart, and was disappointed they brought one into Oswego, way to much trash in those stores, the amount of crime and criminals it brings into a community, not worth the tax revenue

Weston,
You are making assumptions that the Deputy started the altercation…Do you have evidential facts proving such statement? Or are you purely speculating with your bias opinion on law enforcement and jumping on the bandwagon with all the other mutts?

I'm going to have to stand by my comment that the trial is about the behavior of these two men, not the social status of the people who shop at Walmart. I'm assuming the officer is an upstanding citizen, of middle class status, who pulled a gun. I didn't say either party was innocent of their actions. I said it was "testosterone on everybody's part". That doesn't seem to be a bias opinion, as it can be viewed that the actions on both parties was wrong (pushing & pulling out a gun). I was more replying to the general statement that "trash" shops at Walmart, which I found to be harsh.

@Weston They probably do send their kids to the school system...do you see how low the school scores are. And the facts don'
t lie "Those on the bottom rungs of the economic ladder form an enormous portion of Wal-Mart’s consumer market. According to The Nation, “A 2003 study found that 23% of Wal-Mart Supercenter customers live on incomes of less than $25,000 a year. More than 20% of Wal-Mart shoppers have no bank account, long considered a sign of dire poverty. And while almost half of Wal-Mart Supercenter customers are blue-collar workers and their families, 20% are unemployed or elderly" Liza Featherstone, “Down and Out in Discount America,” The Nation, December 18, 2004. And while the issue is about the guilt or innocence of the moron shopping vs the moron cop for pulling a gun, I still wouldn't set foot in that store. And to be factually correct the "offender" wasn't shoved, the offender was the person that did the shoving, he was the only one arrested. Why the cop wasn't charged with aggravated assault is another issue

@ Defense Attorney: So we can agree to disagree on one point.....their actions were wrong. Guess I need to watch more Perry Mason to get the lawer lingo down.

Oh absolutely, they both should have been arrested. Cops covering for cops

Paul, I was not there, but I was on the phone with someone that was witnessing everything going down. I have talked to each of the cashiers, too. The officer was in the wrong and his actions impacted a lot of lives that day.

Who were the 2 oswego officers? Have they been identified yet?

@Paul, aggravated assault would be the only possible charge the Deputy could be hit with

from what the article says he pulled out and pointed his gun first...It wasn't until later that he identified himself as an off duty deputy. So he wasn't an on duty officer performing his official duties. At the moment he pulled his gun..as far as the current defendant was concerned, he was just some nut job pulling a gun, hence the agg assault.

It looks like to me he pulled the gun before the badge, from 33 sec. to .... I saw no badge. huuummm!

WHAT A TEMPER............ he needs to be and should have been on leave until this is settled! I would bet on my life that this isn't the first time he lost his temper?

If we respected each other in our society and took the time to talk with people situations like this wouldn't happen. Both of the men made a bad decision that day. This is an adult form of bullying, on both accounts. This is what our children are seeing, if we can't stop as adults how can we expect them to?

No one is addressing the elephant in the room here. White man pulls gun on black man in public area for a minor shoving incident. Where's Jesse? This loser deputy should be fired and all charges dropped against Thurmond.

Hang on...that is not the case Lana. Mr. Thurmond was out fetching eggs when this all started. The officer was already in a confertation with his wife who is white.

1. Did the officer announce he was an officer, or show an ID, or show a Badge, before pulling his weapon? From all accounts this did not occur. Not until after. Now the questions become when and how long. There are many things that could have happened differently on both sides. I can see any husband or partner coming to the defence of his 9 month pregnant spouce. After all Mr French was already in her face with a bit of an attitude. I agree with Weston, testosterone kicked in. One had way more than the other. Many bad things could have happened as a result of a poor decision and an inflated ego. Did the officer act professional...I say no but the courts could say something different. MJD, Adult bullying is correct!

From what I have read from eyewitnesses on other blogs this officer was berating Thurmond pregnant wife the he returned to the line. What kind of man goes of on a pregnant woman. A coward thats what kind

Sorry berates any woman publicly. A coward with a gun. No better than the gang memberx he is supposed to arrest

I say ...we all have a mother,daughter,aunt,wife, or even girlfriend and like most I would not let any man get in there face! I read all the comments above ...would those defending the cop feel different if it was a skinny little white guy that did the supposly assult? Its not about color or size its about a man standing up for his pregant wife and soon to be born child!!! But like others said maybe taken it a little to far but some react different than others! Being its a cop in reg clothes with a gun in a public area. He was not acting in a PROFESSIONAL matter!!!!

I cant believe how many people have ass for brains pardon my language. Jason was protecting his full term pregnant wife. who yells at and belittles a pregnant woman? A police officer? Thats nice..real good i would have done the exact same. Is pushing a grown screaming beligerant man away from your pregnant wife wrong? Then call me wrong all day i wouldve done the same. This man starts it and when another man defends his wife he pulls a gun. What a coward that officer is for starting what he did. I hope jason wins bigtime for this one

We know to look at this both ways. But they are not.

As all of you bicker and banter over what was ethically correct in this situation, and before I delve into the hornet's nest, I just want to point out one thing I got from the video that was most shocking. All the parents, standing at or near the entrance, that just stood there, in a store, with children, and a man waving a gun. Um, hello, it was not a time for spectating, get the H-E-... out of there with those kids!

Just had to get that off my chest.

As for pulling a gun, whether a law enforcement officer or not, is against the law. If, as a representative of the law, there was immanent danger the officer is to announce himself as an officer of the law, show his badge when/if he pulls his firearm, and instruct the assailant to drop his weapon (or item that is causing or can cause harm to others). That is the LAW.

To blow a gasket over how many items a person has in a shopping cart, to be yelling at a pregnant woman, and than draw a gun because the man was trying to protect his wife from a total stranger, was out of control and way over the top.

Thurmond did not the guy was a cop. Maybe if he had he wouldn't have pushed him. Regardless, the officer started the altercation by accosting a woman. Thurmond did the honorable thing, protected his family.

Do I agree in the pushing? No, but that should have been the only wrong not what happened next. So many very innocent people could have been hurt or killed if the situation escalated.

Just ridiculous.

(sorry... did not "know" the guy was a cop.)

Here is a little something for all you jr. lawyers out there.
Prelude to Using Force:
Before we explore the various aspects of the two standards we must first examine the underlying requirements to an officer's use of force.
1.An officer must have lawful authority. There are usually many ways for an officer to gain authority. The foundations of authority are primarily found in state law. In the vast majority of use-of-force incidents an officer's authority does not come into question. However, there have been cases where an officer "thought" that he had authority when in reality he did not and the resulting consequences were disastrous. Even when an officer does not have "lawful authority" he will still have the same right to act as a normal person. Meaning, an officer, even without authority, will still have the right to self-defense, defense of others, defense of property, etc., just as any other person. However, in some jurisdictions an officer acting as a normal person (without actual officer authority), will have a duty to retreat and the availability of "citizen's arrest" authority may be substantially limited.

Part 2:
2.An officer must have a lawful objective for taking action. Any time an officer uses his governmental authority to bring a person under control the officer MUST have a "lawful objective" for taking the action.

1. Lawful objectives may include: detention, frisk, arrest, involuntary mental commitment, self defense, defense of others, defense of property, preventing escape, and others.

2. "Contempt of Cop" or a person's disrespectful attitude toward an officer is not a "lawful" reason for using force. [3]

3. An officer need not retreat from a known threat. The officer may "choose" to retreat in order to de-escalate the situation or in order to gain a better tactical advantage. However, the officer need not retreat simply because he is faced with a threat that will almost certainly require the officer to use force upon the threat­ening person.
See also: [1] . Graham v. Conner, 490 U.S. 386, 104 L.Ed.2d 443, 109 S.Ct. 1865 (1989)

Source: http://www.laaw.com/howmuchforce.htm

An off-duty police officer may have proper identification and legal authority to arrest an offender, but he or she is also not considered to be on the clock, meaning there could be serious liability or insurance issues if he or she is injured during an off-duty incident or other damage occurs. This is why many off-duty police officers tend to avoid getting directly involved in minor incidents unless the offense is clearly egregious. An off-duty police officer may contact an on-duty police officer to report a minor traffic accident, but only use his or her authority to pull over an erratic driver creating a clear traffic hazard.

Some people believe that an off-duty police officer not in uniform and driving an unmarked car cannot legally issue a citation, but that is not always the case. Different police departments have different policies concerning the authority of off-duty officers, but in many places an off-duty police officer does have the legal right to detain an offender until an on-duty officer arrives to finish the process. The key factor in such an action is proper identification, however. An off-duty police officer who instigates a fight or commits an illegal act has no more rights or legal protections than any other private citizen.

An off-duty police officer who instigates a fight or commits an illegal act has no more rights or legal protections than any other private citizen.

@Frank B LMAO!

Where did the video go? I can't find it? Yeah I agree that so called officer of the law was out of line. The Kendall county dept needs to give him some time off with no pay and reinforce the rules of when an officer is to draw his weapon. This officer needs to be retrained I don't think this is the kind of guy I want out there protecting me or my community.

@Chuck,I'm unable to open the video but what I do know is that: Thurmond appears to be much larger than French in size from what I have read. I believe the way it is...if French is in fear of death or great bodily harm then French can use the gun.

I think how I respond is up to me to decide and the good people on this blog to judge after the fact. If a punch is necessary, so be it.

Deputy French was clearly protecting his ego and not the public. Time for Desk duty and physcological re-examination. And why be mean to a PREGNANT WOMAN about GROCERIES in the first place!?!

Really? First of all if a person is holding up a line at a grocery store you don't yell at the customer you ask to speak with a store manager to open another line. Not only is the customer holding up the line but there was nothing anyone could do as long as the cashier was waiting. The officer was frustrated & didn't want to wait in line so he chose to misuse his authority as an officer. This is IL not FL we don't have a stand your ground law. A person shoving someone is not threatening someone's life. The officer should have identified himself as an officer of the law before the altercation got out of hand. This is the reason we see officers getting shot & dieing on the news everyday. Abusing their authority ass officers. The officer should have been charged with beach of the peace & disorderly conduct & possibly termination. If an officer of the law can not conduct himself in an orderly manner in a grocery store in a situation as simple as waiting in a line he doesn't need to be patrolling the streets.

My grandpa always says IS NOT WHAT YOU SAY IS HOE YOU SAY IT. I feel that common sense was lost from the start. I don't know how anyone could fervour of place with a pregnant woman. How ignorant you have to be to try to argue with someone with child. I feel the "push" was in self defense completely. Yes the gun was far from wrong out of place for more than one reason and has no justification so I ask Why did only one person go to jail that day??? When is it ok to carry and armed weapon officer or not just to grocery shop ??? I pray that this case is seen for the raw truth and nothing more. All these excuses for why the officer can have a gun on him or not are nonsense. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. It's mind boggling how we are taught to never take justice into our own hands. This belief comes from the fact that there should be no bias and a third party with utter respect for the law and its ways should come to justice. I see clearly how people don't practice what they preach. Just because you have a job to serve and protect doesn't give you the right to bear arms where it was just obscene and uncalled for.

he's a cop, of course evry1 will go after him. "he's aloose cannon" "oh my God he should be better than the rest of the human race, he's a police officer." C'mon.......I'm not saying he took the best action but you know what people shouldn't do in an arguement......go straight 2 physical contact. If I had 2 decide on just what I read and saw with no 1st hand accounts and the portions of video with no audio......every1 was wrong here. And it started when a person decided 2 take the confrontation from words to physical. Police fear harm as much as any other human being if not more.

lets concider a few things here,is it legal to shove someone in the wallmart,no it is not.is it legal for someone to pull a gun and point it at someone who just shoved you in the wallmart,no it is not.did french announce that he was a cop before pulling his gun and pointing it at thurmund,according to whitnesses at incident,no he did not.is it legal for an off duty cop to carry his gun,yes it is.is it against the law to protect your pregnant wife from someone who is in her face screaming at her in the wallmart,i dont know,but if it were me,i would have told him 1 time to back off,then i would have done exactly what thurmund did.was thurmund arrested for his actions,yes he was,was french arrested for his actions,no he was not.did thurmand have his day in court,yes he did,and was found not guilty.did french have his day in court,no,he was never charged wit the crime he commited when he pulled his gun and pointed it at thurmand,and i doubt that the sheriff[randall]will repermand him for his illeagle act of pulling&pointing his gun at thurmand.did french need to pull his gun,no,thurmand was not beating him,his life was not in danger,but this cop thought he was above the law ,and he will do it again because as far as he is concirned,its ok for him to do so,why not,he has not been repermanded for his action because his boss[randall]is corrupt and evidently feels that it is ok for his sworn officers to act above the law,maybe next time french will shoot the next thurmand that is

shopping at wallmart with his pregnant wife.OFFICER FRENCH&SHERIFF RANDALL BOTH SHOULD BE FIRED.the citizens of kendall county,and those people passing through,are in danger when the pilice,who are paid to protect&serve,are above the law.stay tuned folks,this is far from over.

john
how come the one bullet barneys on the oswego police haven't done an investagation indepedently from kendall county. how safe do you feel when guns are being pulled at wallmart and our one bullet barneys are arresting grandmon for making christmas cookies in june. its pathatic they let some other cops poop on there turf and they put ther tail between their legs and stood in the corner like some beaten down helpless puppies. but good forbid your not wearing you seat belt or you j walked cause they will arrest you in the name of public safty. tell that to the inocent patrons of walmart feel safe hu!